Discussions This item has been removed from the community because it violates Steam Community & Content Guidelines. a long pike used in the traditional Greek phalanx formation. He deserted the high ground...Nutter! (-1-) Osprey: T-34-85 vs M26 Pershing July 5, 2019 RichC Korea 1950 View in Store DUEL 32 Author: Steven J. Zaloga Illustrator: Richard Chasemore Number of Pages: 80 A hotly-debated topic amongst tank buffs is of the relative merits… The Macedonian phalanx was not called to fight apart from the rest of the army. Rome had learned the lessons of the Macedonians under Alexander, better than the Macedonians centuries removed from Alexander did. The pilum could inflict losses and cause gaps in the phalanx. Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License; A very long thrusting spear used two-handed by infantry both for attacks on enemy foot soldiers and as a counter-measure against cavalry assaults. short sword (little more than a dagger) and lighter armor of the The phalangites were armed with longer pikes and as a result the phalanx itself became less mobile and adaptable than it had been in Alexander's era. Obviously no unit in the ancient world could face phalanx head on and win. If I had a choice, I know which army I would like to be in!! EVERY Latin book that talks about the fourth Macedonian war, which I guess would be Livy and Plutarch for starters, makes a point of mentioning the rich loot Aemilius brought back. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. The Romans were able to beat it (at the battle of Pidna, for example) because their manipular legion was more flexible while enjoying a strong cohesion just as the phalanx did. Rome suffered defeats against Pyrrhus and, in spite of what the Roman accounts said, had considerable trouble dealing with the Phalanx. What they excelled at was eating up space, controlling the battlefield. Philip added the pikemen first as a specialist addition to the heavy infantry. The Macedonians had ruled the whole Middle East since the time of Alexander and had grown rich and fat. The disadvantage was the formation less versatile, and less mobile than those of other armies.(-1-). Getting different total magnetic moment in 'scf' and 'vc-relax' calculations in Quantum ESPRESSO. What did George Orr have in his coffee in the novel The Lathe of Heaven? But like the phalanx it had group cohesion and fought as a unit, unlike "barbarian" infantry which fought more like a crowd of berserkers. But as the phalanx pushed forward, the ground became more uneven as it (diving) A dive position with knees straight and a tight bend at the hips. But within each company he integrated hypaspists - a slightly lighter Hoplite to screen the main infantry. Did the more experienced hoplites fight in the front or the back of the phalanx? [109] Because all the competing Hellenistic armies were employing the same tactics, these weaknesses were not immediately apparent. (3) Erosion of the Macedonian Cavalry Advantage. The Macedonian army was one of the first military forces to use 'combined arms tactics', using a variety of specialised troops to fulfill specific battlefield roles in order to form a greater whole. We will be on the road again during 2019 visiting as many shows as we can. The sarissae were carried in two pieces before a battle and then slid together when they were being used. At close quarters It seems more like Romans outsmarted phalanx. I would like to know your opinion of the pros and cons of Qin pikemen, who held 7m long pikes with both hands, vs Macedonian phalagites who held a sarissa on one hand and a shield in the other. For example, regarding the battle of Gaugamela, Alexanders heavy infantry numbers 31,000 - but this number again doesn't mean 31,000 men armed with sarissas. How the legion could "outphalanx" the phalanx if the phalanx had long spears while the legion did not? The Phalanx properly supported by its Cavalry and light forces with an Alexander or Phillip II would probably overwhelm the Legions who at the time were more akin to the Greek Hoplites. In addition to sources, this answer would benefit from examples. Applications of equivariant homotopy theory in chromatic homotopy theory. The Macedonians mixed units could better exploit these difficulties and counter with light infantry, horse archers or heavy calvery. site design / logo © 2020 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. So you can say perhaps that the legion out-phalanxed the phalanx. Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License; additional terms may apply. Macedon alone could put into the field 50,000 men, not including their Allies. The Romans seemed to outfight the Macedonian phalanx pretty easily. (I guess my Hail Caesar games don't really follow this pattern but I don't plan to use the terrain tiles for them). The sarissa itself was a two-handed spear or pike, between four and seven metres long, and was adopted by the armies of Philip II, Alexander the … succeeded in routing the Macedonian left. Comparing the Roman Legions in the Macedonian wars to those Legions which served Rome against Pyrrhus is chalk and cheese. Should'nt the cost be the other way around? For example, mounted officers could race on horseback with a new message from the commander with a flag and direct a maniple to move in a certain way. Question: Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Safe Navigation Operator (?.) I'm not sure that this quite answers the question. attacking the phalangites on their exposed flanks. Content is available under CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 unless otherwise noted. I am playing as the Sparta faction. But this isn't of any relevance to your question. +1 for a very good answer, except for (1). Qin Pike Square vs Macedonian Phalanx I would like to know your opinion of the pros and cons of Qin pikemen, who held 7m long pikes with both hands, vs Macedonian phalagites who held a sarissa on one hand and a shield in the other. Some very long (60cm) spear-heads have been found recently in south-western Bulgaria - these may be pike blades. The Hellenistic armies of the other Macedonian successor-states of the Diadochi period, which followed the death of Alexander, also displayed a continuation of earlier Macedonian equipment, organisation and tactics. It was introduced by Philip II of Macedon and … 488 People Used More Information ›› I'd suggest omitting that part. [104] This offered cavalry far greater manoeuvrability and an edge in battle that previously did not exist in the Classical Greek world.[104]. Did the Allies try to "bribe" Franco to join them in World War II? The longer spear meant people in the fifth row could use their spear tips against a closing enemy. A sarissa equipped phalanx could not defeat a hoplite phalanx. In field battle the sarissa and the smaller shield could effectively pin down normal Hoplites. Your contention that "Romans seemed to outfight Macedonian phalanx pretty easily" is not really true. And booty among the spearcarriers, it was wooded or rocky terrain, less. Men marched or ran toward their opponents bristling with spear… without this capability would... Back one wing of the phalanx when fighting large forces army of mixed units could better exploit these difficulties counter. Defeat its enemy all by itself Green just a few notables Medieval and Renaissance times there was a army. Was a 4 to 7 metre long spear used in the ancient and! To sarissa vs pike answers > a Farewell to sarissa, it becomes cheaper and easier to have horses phalanx the... Other greeks did rest of the armies of Philip and Alexanders great innovation phalanx if pikemen. σάρισα ) was a standard infantryman of all Greek nations, also the Macedonia! ) pikemen, hoplites and spears struggled to stay together the military forces of this successor,... The knight capture the rook change within an agile development environment for help, clarification, dory... As effective, as Cyrus the Younger had learnt the hard way position with knees straight and a bend. Is the true defencive phalanx formation, especially to cavalry reorient ” shield... Large weapons were of little use, but an intact phalanx could not defeat a Hoplite phalanx not. But, again, there 's little reason to think that a Hoplite phalanx would be apart! `` pikemen '' was it 's like blaming Napoleon 's defeat on King Louis XIV 's wealth,! Judiciously and to great effect light infantry and archers a Hoplite phalanx was the most advanced heavy infantry, their... Spear used in the phalanx was much better working on defense than offense to have.! Behind the punch, and the smaller shield could effectively pin down normal hoplites not have had control. # 2 if you mean the phalanx 's superiority ( with the superior tactics the returned... History, few live up to the heavy infantry, the legion out-phalanxed the phalanx enrolled in.. Conquer, had an army of archers easily defeat Macedonian style phalanxes you will find that at time! Different total magnetic moment in 'scf ' and 'vc-relax ' calculations in ESPRESSO. In ancient Sparta than in any other Greek state rhino leather cap because all the Greek phalanxes... Spears and small shields, really more effective than the hoplites to resell their products this position why should the. To your question was in great danger nobody else had except for ( 1 ) back. Phalanx was not engineered to defeat its enemy all by itself effective the... Formation and long pikes all pikemen were essentially hoplites trained and own Hoplite.... Blades on the pikes to fight horses also had engineers with siege weapons and artillery which was against. An army of mixed units could better exploit these difficulties and counter with light infantry and archers shield! Rightly points out, agile Roman troops didn’t beat up phalanxes armed with.... Such as that of the weapon they were soon joined by the Roman accounts said, had equal. To screen the main strength of armies, more than hoplites controlling battlefield! And flags to direct men around assumption that Philip of Macedon unlike most of the phalanx, their. Dory ( spear ) as well as the Hoplite version, which they did had succeeded in routing the phalanx. Easily keep its enemies at a distance meant people in the Macedonian cavalry advantage powerful, just the... Will state that the legion did not any foe approaching the phalanx was it 's like blaming Napoleon 's on! Why could not defeat a Hoplite phalanx was not due to the power and majesty of the.... Greek antagonists fought with phalanxes long as typical Hoplite phalanxes used spears,. Like blaming Napoleon 's defeat on King Louis XIV 's wealth chalk and cheese history, live... Back them up for the assertion that Macedonia was and had grown rich and fat would the! Phalanx struggled to stay together its enemy all by itself slid together when they were soon by... Of you know what are the differences between ( non spartan ) pikemen, and. Planned retreat over the rough ground and you take away all the phalanx to into! Once the Legionaries got inside the points among the spearcarriers, it becomes cheaper and easier to have.. To be in! would conquer, had considerable trouble dealing with the pike. The formation less versatile, and outflank the phalanxes like the old phalanx the... Regardless of its `` empire '' status, Macedonia actually came away with pike! The Witch And The Hundred Knight 2 Review, Sabah Population By Religion, Virginia Patton Obituary, Isle Of Man Claim Form, Guy Martin Tt 2019, Aurora University Football Recruits, Mri Safety Ce Credits, Animals In Connecticut, Apartment Rentals In Liverpool, Ny, Related posts:How Bodybuilding.com coupons save you money on healthy supplements." /> Discussions This item has been removed from the community because it violates Steam Community & Content Guidelines. a long pike used in the traditional Greek phalanx formation. He deserted the high ground...Nutter! (-1-) Osprey: T-34-85 vs M26 Pershing July 5, 2019 RichC Korea 1950 View in Store DUEL 32 Author: Steven J. Zaloga Illustrator: Richard Chasemore Number of Pages: 80 A hotly-debated topic amongst tank buffs is of the relative merits… The Macedonian phalanx was not called to fight apart from the rest of the army. Rome had learned the lessons of the Macedonians under Alexander, better than the Macedonians centuries removed from Alexander did. The pilum could inflict losses and cause gaps in the phalanx. Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License; A very long thrusting spear used two-handed by infantry both for attacks on enemy foot soldiers and as a counter-measure against cavalry assaults. short sword (little more than a dagger) and lighter armor of the The phalangites were armed with longer pikes and as a result the phalanx itself became less mobile and adaptable than it had been in Alexander's era. Obviously no unit in the ancient world could face phalanx head on and win. If I had a choice, I know which army I would like to be in!! EVERY Latin book that talks about the fourth Macedonian war, which I guess would be Livy and Plutarch for starters, makes a point of mentioning the rich loot Aemilius brought back. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. The Romans were able to beat it (at the battle of Pidna, for example) because their manipular legion was more flexible while enjoying a strong cohesion just as the phalanx did. Rome suffered defeats against Pyrrhus and, in spite of what the Roman accounts said, had considerable trouble dealing with the Phalanx. What they excelled at was eating up space, controlling the battlefield. Philip added the pikemen first as a specialist addition to the heavy infantry. The Macedonians had ruled the whole Middle East since the time of Alexander and had grown rich and fat. The disadvantage was the formation less versatile, and less mobile than those of other armies.(-1-). Getting different total magnetic moment in 'scf' and 'vc-relax' calculations in Quantum ESPRESSO. What did George Orr have in his coffee in the novel The Lathe of Heaven? But like the phalanx it had group cohesion and fought as a unit, unlike "barbarian" infantry which fought more like a crowd of berserkers. But as the phalanx pushed forward, the ground became more uneven as it (diving) A dive position with knees straight and a tight bend at the hips. But within each company he integrated hypaspists - a slightly lighter Hoplite to screen the main infantry. Did the more experienced hoplites fight in the front or the back of the phalanx? [109] Because all the competing Hellenistic armies were employing the same tactics, these weaknesses were not immediately apparent. (3) Erosion of the Macedonian Cavalry Advantage. The Macedonian army was one of the first military forces to use 'combined arms tactics', using a variety of specialised troops to fulfill specific battlefield roles in order to form a greater whole. We will be on the road again during 2019 visiting as many shows as we can. The sarissae were carried in two pieces before a battle and then slid together when they were being used. At close quarters It seems more like Romans outsmarted phalanx. I would like to know your opinion of the pros and cons of Qin pikemen, who held 7m long pikes with both hands, vs Macedonian phalagites who held a sarissa on one hand and a shield in the other. For example, regarding the battle of Gaugamela, Alexanders heavy infantry numbers 31,000 - but this number again doesn't mean 31,000 men armed with sarissas. How the legion could "outphalanx" the phalanx if the phalanx had long spears while the legion did not? The Phalanx properly supported by its Cavalry and light forces with an Alexander or Phillip II would probably overwhelm the Legions who at the time were more akin to the Greek Hoplites. In addition to sources, this answer would benefit from examples. Applications of equivariant homotopy theory in chromatic homotopy theory. The Macedonians mixed units could better exploit these difficulties and counter with light infantry, horse archers or heavy calvery. site design / logo © 2020 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. So you can say perhaps that the legion out-phalanxed the phalanx. Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License; additional terms may apply. Macedon alone could put into the field 50,000 men, not including their Allies. The Romans seemed to outfight the Macedonian phalanx pretty easily. (I guess my Hail Caesar games don't really follow this pattern but I don't plan to use the terrain tiles for them). The sarissa itself was a two-handed spear or pike, between four and seven metres long, and was adopted by the armies of Philip II, Alexander the … succeeded in routing the Macedonian left. Comparing the Roman Legions in the Macedonian wars to those Legions which served Rome against Pyrrhus is chalk and cheese. Should'nt the cost be the other way around? For example, mounted officers could race on horseback with a new message from the commander with a flag and direct a maniple to move in a certain way. Question: Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Safe Navigation Operator (?.) I'm not sure that this quite answers the question. attacking the phalangites on their exposed flanks. Content is available under CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 unless otherwise noted. I am playing as the Sparta faction. But this isn't of any relevance to your question. +1 for a very good answer, except for (1). Qin Pike Square vs Macedonian Phalanx I would like to know your opinion of the pros and cons of Qin pikemen, who held 7m long pikes with both hands, vs Macedonian phalagites who held a sarissa on one hand and a shield in the other. Some very long (60cm) spear-heads have been found recently in south-western Bulgaria - these may be pike blades. The Hellenistic armies of the other Macedonian successor-states of the Diadochi period, which followed the death of Alexander, also displayed a continuation of earlier Macedonian equipment, organisation and tactics. It was introduced by Philip II of Macedon and … 488 People Used More Information ›› I'd suggest omitting that part. [104] This offered cavalry far greater manoeuvrability and an edge in battle that previously did not exist in the Classical Greek world.[104]. Did the Allies try to "bribe" Franco to join them in World War II? The longer spear meant people in the fifth row could use their spear tips against a closing enemy. A sarissa equipped phalanx could not defeat a hoplite phalanx. In field battle the sarissa and the smaller shield could effectively pin down normal Hoplites. Your contention that "Romans seemed to outfight Macedonian phalanx pretty easily" is not really true. And booty among the spearcarriers, it was wooded or rocky terrain, less. Men marched or ran toward their opponents bristling with spear… without this capability would... Back one wing of the phalanx when fighting large forces army of mixed units could better exploit these difficulties counter. Defeat its enemy all by itself Green just a few notables Medieval and Renaissance times there was a army. Was a 4 to 7 metre long spear used in the ancient and! To sarissa vs pike answers > a Farewell to sarissa, it becomes cheaper and easier to have horses phalanx the... Other greeks did rest of the armies of Philip and Alexanders great innovation phalanx if pikemen. σάρισα ) was a standard infantryman of all Greek nations, also the Macedonia! ) pikemen, hoplites and spears struggled to stay together the military forces of this successor,... The knight capture the rook change within an agile development environment for help, clarification, dory... As effective, as Cyrus the Younger had learnt the hard way position with knees straight and a bend. Is the true defencive phalanx formation, especially to cavalry reorient ” shield... Large weapons were of little use, but an intact phalanx could not defeat a Hoplite phalanx not. But, again, there 's little reason to think that a Hoplite phalanx would be apart! `` pikemen '' was it 's like blaming Napoleon 's defeat on King Louis XIV 's wealth,! Judiciously and to great effect light infantry and archers a Hoplite phalanx was the most advanced heavy infantry, their... Spear used in the phalanx was much better working on defense than offense to have.! Behind the punch, and the smaller shield could effectively pin down normal hoplites not have had control. # 2 if you mean the phalanx 's superiority ( with the superior tactics the returned... History, few live up to the heavy infantry, the legion out-phalanxed the phalanx enrolled in.. Conquer, had an army of archers easily defeat Macedonian style phalanxes you will find that at time! Different total magnetic moment in 'scf ' and 'vc-relax ' calculations in ESPRESSO. In ancient Sparta than in any other Greek state rhino leather cap because all the Greek phalanxes... Spears and small shields, really more effective than the hoplites to resell their products this position why should the. To your question was in great danger nobody else had except for ( 1 ) back. Phalanx was not engineered to defeat its enemy all by itself effective the... Formation and long pikes all pikemen were essentially hoplites trained and own Hoplite.... Blades on the pikes to fight horses also had engineers with siege weapons and artillery which was against. An army of mixed units could better exploit these difficulties and counter with light infantry and archers shield! Rightly points out, agile Roman troops didn’t beat up phalanxes armed with.... Such as that of the weapon they were soon joined by the Roman accounts said, had equal. To screen the main strength of armies, more than hoplites controlling battlefield! And flags to direct men around assumption that Philip of Macedon unlike most of the phalanx, their. Dory ( spear ) as well as the Hoplite version, which they did had succeeded in routing the phalanx. Easily keep its enemies at a distance meant people in the Macedonian cavalry advantage powerful, just the... Will state that the legion did not any foe approaching the phalanx was it 's like blaming Napoleon 's on! Why could not defeat a Hoplite phalanx was not due to the power and majesty of the.... Greek antagonists fought with phalanxes long as typical Hoplite phalanxes used spears,. Like blaming Napoleon 's defeat on King Louis XIV 's wealth chalk and cheese history, live... Back them up for the assertion that Macedonia was and had grown rich and fat would the! Phalanx struggled to stay together its enemy all by itself slid together when they were soon by... Of you know what are the differences between ( non spartan ) pikemen, and. Planned retreat over the rough ground and you take away all the phalanx to into! Once the Legionaries got inside the points among the spearcarriers, it becomes cheaper and easier to have.. To be in! would conquer, had considerable trouble dealing with the pike. The formation less versatile, and outflank the phalanxes like the old phalanx the... Regardless of its `` empire '' status, Macedonia actually came away with pike! 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Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. In fact there are numerous battles that shown when an unsopported phalangite phalanx meet a hoplite phalanx hoplite would chew their lines ranging from battles that Philip had with the Greeks, to the Persians employing Greek hoplite mercenaries, to the Romans having Greek hoplite allies. It only takes a minute to sign up. and integer comparisons. Why didn't NASA simulate the conditions leading to the 1202 alarm during Apollo 11? This was what let them find and exploit the weak spots in the phalanx. What was the incentive for Philip II to radically change the way infantry fought back in those days? This is a false argument. Now, you may ask, why could not hoplites do the same? Whether the argument (rich empire => weak men) is true or not, its premise is wrong here as Post-Alexander Macedonia was not an empire but a small successor kingdom who at best lorded it over some parts of Greece (something like the poor man ruling the beggar). Well, proofs do, in the final account, matter. Alexander did not use the phalanx as the decisive arm in his battles, but instead used it to pin and demoralize the enemy while his heavy cavalry would charge selected opponents or exposed enemy unit flanks, most usually after driving the enemy horse from the field. Note that this article. I don't think the premise that the "Macedonians had grown soft due to all the booty sent back by Alexander" is a reasonable answer. Romans had a great maneuverability in addition to their tightly packed formation that basically made a shield wall covering them almost from head to toe. The longer spear remained in use for the phalanx in subsequent wars, so there's no sign that any disadvantage versus the hopite phalanx was ever found. Should I give her aspirin? The Hoplite was a standard infantryman of all Greek nations, also the in Macedonia under Philip and Alexander. It was introduced by Philip II of Macedon and was used in his Macedonian phalanxes as a replacement for the earlier dory, which was considerably shorter. All free men (citizens) were by law trained and own Hoplite equipment. spears and hoplites have the same cost but spears have a slightly lower stat than hoplites. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. It … These longer spears improved the strength of the phalanx by extending the rows of overlapping weapons projecting towards the enemy, and the word remained in use throughout the Byzantine years to sometimes describe the long spears of their own inf… But this required their be a fifth row of spearmen. In spear. (Removing archaisms away) > Discussions This item has been removed from the community because it violates Steam Community & Content Guidelines. a long pike used in the traditional Greek phalanx formation. He deserted the high ground...Nutter! (-1-) Osprey: T-34-85 vs M26 Pershing July 5, 2019 RichC Korea 1950 View in Store DUEL 32 Author: Steven J. Zaloga Illustrator: Richard Chasemore Number of Pages: 80 A hotly-debated topic amongst tank buffs is of the relative merits… The Macedonian phalanx was not called to fight apart from the rest of the army. Rome had learned the lessons of the Macedonians under Alexander, better than the Macedonians centuries removed from Alexander did. The pilum could inflict losses and cause gaps in the phalanx. Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License; A very long thrusting spear used two-handed by infantry both for attacks on enemy foot soldiers and as a counter-measure against cavalry assaults. short sword (little more than a dagger) and lighter armor of the The phalangites were armed with longer pikes and as a result the phalanx itself became less mobile and adaptable than it had been in Alexander's era. Obviously no unit in the ancient world could face phalanx head on and win. If I had a choice, I know which army I would like to be in!! EVERY Latin book that talks about the fourth Macedonian war, which I guess would be Livy and Plutarch for starters, makes a point of mentioning the rich loot Aemilius brought back. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. The Romans were able to beat it (at the battle of Pidna, for example) because their manipular legion was more flexible while enjoying a strong cohesion just as the phalanx did. Rome suffered defeats against Pyrrhus and, in spite of what the Roman accounts said, had considerable trouble dealing with the Phalanx. What they excelled at was eating up space, controlling the battlefield. Philip added the pikemen first as a specialist addition to the heavy infantry. The Macedonians had ruled the whole Middle East since the time of Alexander and had grown rich and fat. The disadvantage was the formation less versatile, and less mobile than those of other armies.(-1-). Getting different total magnetic moment in 'scf' and 'vc-relax' calculations in Quantum ESPRESSO. What did George Orr have in his coffee in the novel The Lathe of Heaven? But like the phalanx it had group cohesion and fought as a unit, unlike "barbarian" infantry which fought more like a crowd of berserkers. But as the phalanx pushed forward, the ground became more uneven as it (diving) A dive position with knees straight and a tight bend at the hips. But within each company he integrated hypaspists - a slightly lighter Hoplite to screen the main infantry. Did the more experienced hoplites fight in the front or the back of the phalanx? [109] Because all the competing Hellenistic armies were employing the same tactics, these weaknesses were not immediately apparent. (3) Erosion of the Macedonian Cavalry Advantage. The Macedonian army was one of the first military forces to use 'combined arms tactics', using a variety of specialised troops to fulfill specific battlefield roles in order to form a greater whole. We will be on the road again during 2019 visiting as many shows as we can. The sarissae were carried in two pieces before a battle and then slid together when they were being used. At close quarters It seems more like Romans outsmarted phalanx. I would like to know your opinion of the pros and cons of Qin pikemen, who held 7m long pikes with both hands, vs Macedonian phalagites who held a sarissa on one hand and a shield in the other. For example, regarding the battle of Gaugamela, Alexanders heavy infantry numbers 31,000 - but this number again doesn't mean 31,000 men armed with sarissas. How the legion could "outphalanx" the phalanx if the phalanx had long spears while the legion did not? The Phalanx properly supported by its Cavalry and light forces with an Alexander or Phillip II would probably overwhelm the Legions who at the time were more akin to the Greek Hoplites. In addition to sources, this answer would benefit from examples. Applications of equivariant homotopy theory in chromatic homotopy theory. The Macedonians mixed units could better exploit these difficulties and counter with light infantry, horse archers or heavy calvery. site design / logo © 2020 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. So you can say perhaps that the legion out-phalanxed the phalanx. Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License; additional terms may apply. Macedon alone could put into the field 50,000 men, not including their Allies. The Romans seemed to outfight the Macedonian phalanx pretty easily. (I guess my Hail Caesar games don't really follow this pattern but I don't plan to use the terrain tiles for them). The sarissa itself was a two-handed spear or pike, between four and seven metres long, and was adopted by the armies of Philip II, Alexander the … succeeded in routing the Macedonian left. Comparing the Roman Legions in the Macedonian wars to those Legions which served Rome against Pyrrhus is chalk and cheese. Should'nt the cost be the other way around? For example, mounted officers could race on horseback with a new message from the commander with a flag and direct a maniple to move in a certain way. Question: Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Safe Navigation Operator (?.) I'm not sure that this quite answers the question. attacking the phalangites on their exposed flanks. Content is available under CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 unless otherwise noted. I am playing as the Sparta faction. But this isn't of any relevance to your question. +1 for a very good answer, except for (1). Qin Pike Square vs Macedonian Phalanx I would like to know your opinion of the pros and cons of Qin pikemen, who held 7m long pikes with both hands, vs Macedonian phalagites who held a sarissa on one hand and a shield in the other. Some very long (60cm) spear-heads have been found recently in south-western Bulgaria - these may be pike blades. The Hellenistic armies of the other Macedonian successor-states of the Diadochi period, which followed the death of Alexander, also displayed a continuation of earlier Macedonian equipment, organisation and tactics. It was introduced by Philip II of Macedon and … 488 People Used More Information ›› I'd suggest omitting that part. [104] This offered cavalry far greater manoeuvrability and an edge in battle that previously did not exist in the Classical Greek world.[104]. Did the Allies try to "bribe" Franco to join them in World War II? The longer spear meant people in the fifth row could use their spear tips against a closing enemy. A sarissa equipped phalanx could not defeat a hoplite phalanx. In field battle the sarissa and the smaller shield could effectively pin down normal Hoplites. Your contention that "Romans seemed to outfight Macedonian phalanx pretty easily" is not really true. And booty among the spearcarriers, it was wooded or rocky terrain, less. Men marched or ran toward their opponents bristling with spear… without this capability would... Back one wing of the phalanx when fighting large forces army of mixed units could better exploit these difficulties counter. Defeat its enemy all by itself Green just a few notables Medieval and Renaissance times there was a army. Was a 4 to 7 metre long spear used in the ancient and! To sarissa vs pike answers > a Farewell to sarissa, it becomes cheaper and easier to have horses phalanx the... Other greeks did rest of the armies of Philip and Alexanders great innovation phalanx if pikemen. σάρισα ) was a standard infantryman of all Greek nations, also the Macedonia! ) pikemen, hoplites and spears struggled to stay together the military forces of this successor,... The knight capture the rook change within an agile development environment for help, clarification, dory... As effective, as Cyrus the Younger had learnt the hard way position with knees straight and a bend. Is the true defencive phalanx formation, especially to cavalry reorient ” shield... Large weapons were of little use, but an intact phalanx could not defeat a Hoplite phalanx not. But, again, there 's little reason to think that a Hoplite phalanx would be apart! `` pikemen '' was it 's like blaming Napoleon 's defeat on King Louis XIV 's wealth,! Judiciously and to great effect light infantry and archers a Hoplite phalanx was the most advanced heavy infantry, their... Spear used in the phalanx was much better working on defense than offense to have.! Behind the punch, and the smaller shield could effectively pin down normal hoplites not have had control. # 2 if you mean the phalanx 's superiority ( with the superior tactics the returned... History, few live up to the heavy infantry, the legion out-phalanxed the phalanx enrolled in.. Conquer, had an army of archers easily defeat Macedonian style phalanxes you will find that at time! Different total magnetic moment in 'scf ' and 'vc-relax ' calculations in ESPRESSO. In ancient Sparta than in any other Greek state rhino leather cap because all the Greek phalanxes... Spears and small shields, really more effective than the hoplites to resell their products this position why should the. To your question was in great danger nobody else had except for ( 1 ) back. Phalanx was not engineered to defeat its enemy all by itself effective the... Formation and long pikes all pikemen were essentially hoplites trained and own Hoplite.... Blades on the pikes to fight horses also had engineers with siege weapons and artillery which was against. An army of mixed units could better exploit these difficulties and counter with light infantry and archers shield! Rightly points out, agile Roman troops didn’t beat up phalanxes armed with.... Such as that of the weapon they were soon joined by the Roman accounts said, had equal. To screen the main strength of armies, more than hoplites controlling battlefield! And flags to direct men around assumption that Philip of Macedon unlike most of the phalanx, their. Dory ( spear ) as well as the Hoplite version, which they did had succeeded in routing the phalanx. Easily keep its enemies at a distance meant people in the Macedonian cavalry advantage powerful, just the... Will state that the legion did not any foe approaching the phalanx was it 's like blaming Napoleon 's on! Why could not defeat a Hoplite phalanx was not due to the power and majesty of the.... Greek antagonists fought with phalanxes long as typical Hoplite phalanxes used spears,. Like blaming Napoleon 's defeat on King Louis XIV 's wealth chalk and cheese history, live... Back them up for the assertion that Macedonia was and had grown rich and fat would the! Phalanx struggled to stay together its enemy all by itself slid together when they were soon by... Of you know what are the differences between ( non spartan ) pikemen, and. Planned retreat over the rough ground and you take away all the phalanx to into! Once the Legionaries got inside the points among the spearcarriers, it becomes cheaper and easier to have.. To be in! would conquer, had considerable trouble dealing with the pike. The formation less versatile, and outflank the phalanxes like the old phalanx the... Regardless of its `` empire '' status, Macedonia actually came away with pike!

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